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	<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 16:47:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>by: Christina B</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-40435</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 19:22:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-40435</guid>
					<description>Hello,
I am new.  I got here through real adult sex.

I like your analogy and it seems fairly accurate.  However, as two commenters have already pointed out, people join the military for many different reasons and women become prostitutes for many different reasons.  I think this is actually true for most jobs and most people.  I think the number of people who choose a specific profession because they like and want to do that work is small.  I think finances, esteem and social status, values, schedule and free time, distance from home etc play a larger role in choosing a profession/job for most people than whether or not they actually like the work.  

Also, I think many people see the &quot;joining the military&quot; as a heroic...&quot;he wants to defend the country&quot; kind of decision.  Hence, drawing parallels between the two focusing on the very similar exploitative aspects of both has the potential to enlighten discourse about both subjects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello,<br />
I am new.  I got here through real adult sex.</p>
<p>I like your analogy and it seems fairly accurate.  However, as two commenters have already pointed out, people join the military for many different reasons and women become prostitutes for many different reasons.  I think this is actually true for most jobs and most people.  I think the number of people who choose a specific profession because they like and want to do that work is small.  I think finances, esteem and social status, values, schedule and free time, distance from home etc play a larger role in choosing a profession/job for most people than whether or not they actually like the work.  </p>
<p>Also, I think many people see the &#8220;joining the military&#8221; as a heroic&#8230;&#8221;he wants to defend the country&#8221; kind of decision.  Hence, drawing parallels between the two focusing on the very similar exploitative aspects of both has the potential to enlighten discourse about both subjects.
</p>
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		<title>by: Alyssa</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-38273</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Apr 2008 07:45:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-38273</guid>
					<description>That is a really interesting comparison, and I do think it's valid. I recently read another blog post by Renegade Evolution (http://renegadeevolution.blogspot.com/2008/04/whores-other-mercenaries.html) that made a similar comparison between prostitutes and mercenaries. It's well written and definitely worth reading. If you could find the time, of course.

She didn't look at the gender implications in as much detail as you did, though, and I hadn't thought of how the military=masculine people serving feminine people and sex work=feminine people serving masculine people. As usual, the people on the feminine side of the equation don't get respect, even though it's a different side for each job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That is a really interesting comparison, and I do think it&#8217;s valid. I recently read another blog post by Renegade Evolution (http://renegadeevolution.blogspot.com/2008/04/whores-other-mercenaries.html) that made a similar comparison between prostitutes and mercenaries. It&#8217;s well written and definitely worth reading. If you could find the time, of course.</p>
<p>She didn&#8217;t look at the gender implications in as much detail as you did, though, and I hadn&#8217;t thought of how the military=masculine people serving feminine people and sex work=feminine people serving masculine people. As usual, the people on the feminine side of the equation don&#8217;t get respect, even though it&#8217;s a different side for each job.
</p>
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		<title>by: Heather Corinna</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-35625</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-35625</guid>
					<description>The age thing: so right!  I totally dismissed that parallel, and you're so, so right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The age thing: so right!  I totally dismissed that parallel, and you&#8217;re so, so right.
</p>
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		<title>by: Trixie</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-35508</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Mar 2008 01:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-35508</guid>
					<description>Most recent comparison at our house between soldiers &amp;#38; whores was an easy one in reaction to the histrionic CNN interview whining at Dacia about how YOUNG Dupre was: &quot;at only 22 how can she be mature enough to make such a big decision as deciding to escort?? Oh! The long term consequences!!&quot; It's funny how you never hear the same questions being asked by the mainstream media about an 18 year old's ability to sign on to die &quot;for their country&quot;. Or a 22 year old woman's decision to start a family, but that's a whole other thing.

Good stuff!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most recent comparison at our house between soldiers &amp; whores was an easy one in reaction to the histrionic CNN interview whining at Dacia about how YOUNG Dupre was: &#8220;at only 22 how can she be mature enough to make such a big decision as deciding to escort?? Oh! The long term consequences!!&#8221; It&#8217;s funny how you never hear the same questions being asked by the mainstream media about an 18 year old&#8217;s ability to sign on to die &#8220;for their country&#8221;. Or a 22 year old woman&#8217;s decision to start a family, but that&#8217;s a whole other thing.</p>
<p>Good stuff!
</p>
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		<title>by: Heather Corinna</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-35107</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 18:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-35107</guid>
					<description>Kristina: I agree, in both groups, there is certainly a limited sympathy, and a limited understanding as to how a great many folks in the military wind up in it.  But I also think you way more often tend to hear disparaging talk about sex workers than military.  When a sex worker is injured on the job, I think there's more of a &quot;Well, they should have known better,&quot; than we see in the same situation with someone in the military. 

Per my own military feelings, it really is as simple as being anti-military.  I'm a pacifist, and while I recognize that we don't live in a vacuum, nor outside a worldwide scenario where we have to deal with other countries' military forces, ideally, I'm just strongly against the ideas of a military, period.  Doesn't mean I'm not sympathetic to many people in it, mind you, I am, but I'd prefer not having to fiscally contribute to war (though calling anything our military has done since the 40's war is certainly spurious) in any way or have a military.

Bear in mind, too, the first years of my life were also spent in hiding due to a parent resisting the draft, so.

Korina: &quot;Sex work is usually a means to an end, not the end itself.&quot;  I think that's really apt and to the point.

Fish: I think with officers and such, we're perhaps more looking at comparing them with higher-end sex workers and independents.

Per the taking orders part, I think one place the comparison breaks down (kind of) is when we're talking about sex workers who are entirely independent -- who aren't street with pimps, don't use agencies, don't work for clubs they don't own, etc.  

Of course, it depends on where we're stopping looking at overarching power structures: if we're looking at the macrocosm, at the world en large that sex work exists in, and how things go between workers and clients financially and otherwise, it may still hold up.  What do you think?

Seska: I miss you, gal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kristina: I agree, in both groups, there is certainly a limited sympathy, and a limited understanding as to how a great many folks in the military wind up in it.  But I also think you way more often tend to hear disparaging talk about sex workers than military.  When a sex worker is injured on the job, I think there&#8217;s more of a &#8220;Well, they should have known better,&#8221; than we see in the same situation with someone in the military. </p>
<p>Per my own military feelings, it really is as simple as being anti-military.  I&#8217;m a pacifist, and while I recognize that we don&#8217;t live in a vacuum, nor outside a worldwide scenario where we have to deal with other countries&#8217; military forces, ideally, I&#8217;m just strongly against the ideas of a military, period.  Doesn&#8217;t mean I&#8217;m not sympathetic to many people in it, mind you, I am, but I&#8217;d prefer not having to fiscally contribute to war (though calling anything our military has done since the 40&#8217;s war is certainly spurious) in any way or have a military.</p>
<p>Bear in mind, too, the first years of my life were also spent in hiding due to a parent resisting the draft, so.</p>
<p>Korina: &#8220;Sex work is usually a means to an end, not the end itself.&#8221;  I think that&#8217;s really apt and to the point.</p>
<p>Fish: I think with officers and such, we&#8217;re perhaps more looking at comparing them with higher-end sex workers and independents.</p>
<p>Per the taking orders part, I think one place the comparison breaks down (kind of) is when we&#8217;re talking about sex workers who are entirely independent &#8212; who aren&#8217;t street with pimps, don&#8217;t use agencies, don&#8217;t work for clubs they don&#8217;t own, etc.  </p>
<p>Of course, it depends on where we&#8217;re stopping looking at overarching power structures: if we&#8217;re looking at the macrocosm, at the world en large that sex work exists in, and how things go between workers and clients financially and otherwise, it may still hold up.  What do you think?</p>
<p>Seska: I miss you, gal.
</p>
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		<title>by: Seska</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34998</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 17:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34998</guid>
					<description>Fish - &quot;Military personnel in general are supposed to take orders and not think or argue about it. How does that relate to prostitution? Or does it? It’s not necessarily that people aren’t supposed to take initiative or think, but that in a dangerous situation they are to rely on the knowledge and thinking of their superiors.&quot;

In prostitution you tend to work alone and you need to depend on your own intuition and actions to be safe.  Criminalization and other factors can make this difficult to do.

-

But back to reasons for entry - sex work and the military. I think it is an interesting and powerful comparison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fish - &#8220;Military personnel in general are supposed to take orders and not think or argue about it. How does that relate to prostitution? Or does it? It’s not necessarily that people aren’t supposed to take initiative or think, but that in a dangerous situation they are to rely on the knowledge and thinking of their superiors.&#8221;</p>
<p>In prostitution you tend to work alone and you need to depend on your own intuition and actions to be safe.  Criminalization and other factors can make this difficult to do.</p>
<p>-</p>
<p>But back to reasons for entry - sex work and the military. I think it is an interesting and powerful comparison.
</p>
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		<title>by: fish</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34943</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 05:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34943</guid>
					<description>As far as the enlisted ranks go, I'd say that's an excellent comparison of the whys and hows people get into both lines of work. Not sure it applies as well to the officers, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to say it doesn't. And I am obviously biased, at least in thought, given my background. I think the danger and the trauma are (or could be?) similar, except one is given lip service and the other is vilified. (In general, in both cases - it's not universal by any means.)

I'm not particularly articulate right now, but the parallels are strong. Very interesting thoughts.

Question for you, and I hope I'm phrasing this in a way that isn't offensive. Military personnel in general are supposed to take orders and not think or argue about it. How does that relate to prostitution? Or does it? It's not necessarily that people aren't supposed to take initiative or think, but that in a dangerous situation they are to rely on the knowledge and thinking of their superiors. This is probably the biggest reason why I never considered it. Institutionalized sexism was the other big reason. Those, and I'd had enough of someone else deciding where I was going to live.

Does that make sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as the enlisted ranks go, I&#8217;d say that&#8217;s an excellent comparison of the whys and hows people get into both lines of work. Not sure it applies as well to the officers, but I&#8217;m not knowledgeable enough to say it doesn&#8217;t. And I am obviously biased, at least in thought, given my background. I think the danger and the trauma are (or could be?) similar, except one is given lip service and the other is vilified. (In general, in both cases - it&#8217;s not universal by any means.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not particularly articulate right now, but the parallels are strong. Very interesting thoughts.</p>
<p>Question for you, and I hope I&#8217;m phrasing this in a way that isn&#8217;t offensive. Military personnel in general are supposed to take orders and not think or argue about it. How does that relate to prostitution? Or does it? It&#8217;s not necessarily that people aren&#8217;t supposed to take initiative or think, but that in a dangerous situation they are to rely on the knowledge and thinking of their superiors. This is probably the biggest reason why I never considered it. Institutionalized sexism was the other big reason. Those, and I&#8217;d had enough of someone else deciding where I was going to live.</p>
<p>Does that make sense?
</p>
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		<title>by: Laura</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34568</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34568</guid>
					<description>This is a really interesting comparison. I might like to share it with some of my blog friends. I kills me how so many people think the choice to be in the military is a GOOD one. Usually those people who have never known someone in the military. It's a shame that sex work, which as you point out becomes a means to an end for some people the same way the military can for others, is not seen in the same light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a really interesting comparison. I might like to share it with some of my blog friends. I kills me how so many people think the choice to be in the military is a GOOD one. Usually those people who have never known someone in the military. It&#8217;s a shame that sex work, which as you point out becomes a means to an end for some people the same way the military can for others, is not seen in the same light.
</p>
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		<title>by: Korina</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34529</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34529</guid>
					<description>I admit that this comparison has occurred to me in the past, but fleetingly, and your detail here makes a strong case. As a former sex worker myself, and having known (and knowing) many, many others, most if not all of the men and women I knew/know in the industry got into it because they were in dire financial straits. Some of them (including myself) were college educated, but not many, and those of us who were were not making a decent living. There are a few people I know who just really like the work and found that it suited them after a while, but th impetus was nearly always financial. Some people could have made more money doing something else, but it would have taken them more time, and they were about evenly divided between a) being too lazy to work more or build something up gradually or b) had children or spouses they were supporting and got hooked by the quick, relatively easy money. Sex work is usually a means to an end, not the end itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admit that this comparison has occurred to me in the past, but fleetingly, and your detail here makes a strong case. As a former sex worker myself, and having known (and knowing) many, many others, most if not all of the men and women I knew/know in the industry got into it because they were in dire financial straits. Some of them (including myself) were college educated, but not many, and those of us who were were not making a decent living. There are a few people I know who just really like the work and found that it suited them after a while, but th impetus was nearly always financial. Some people could have made more money doing something else, but it would have taken them more time, and they were about evenly divided between a) being too lazy to work more or build something up gradually or b) had children or spouses they were supporting and got hooked by the quick, relatively easy money. Sex work is usually a means to an end, not the end itself.
</p>
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		<title>by: Kristina</title>
		<link>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34453</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/03/16/onward-soldier/#comment-34453</guid>
					<description>Heather... 

This is a lot to digest, so I'd have to reread and ruminate for awhile before I could offer an opinion-- and then I don't know how valid my opinion would be since I'm only married to a military member, not a member of the military.  However, after 18 years and six (seven?) deployments and another one on the horizon in three weeks, I've seen it from the inside and would venture to say there are as many reasons why people join the military as there are reasons people become sex workers.  

I don't think most of the country is particularly sympathetic to the military except in times of war or whatever they're calling it now-- if then.  They pay a lot of lip service to &quot;sacrifice&quot; and &quot;honor&quot; and throw the word &quot;hero&quot; around a lot and give out medals to placate the civilians that we're the good guys and winning the war against the bad guys, but in the end I think the mentality is &quot;Better him/her than my son/daughter, husband/wife.&quot;  The other mentality seems to be that going into the military is a free-thinking choice and is well-compensated (which it can be, if you make it a career), so no sympathy is necessary.   I have my doubts when you say: &quot;...I also wonder if looking at this sort of comparison, or some other like it, wouldn’t help to improve some folks’ levels of compassion or understanding for sex workers or about sex work.&quot; 

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by you're &quot;strongly anti-military.&quot;  Can you clarify?

Intriguing way to frame the topic and I'll be interested to hear others' opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heather&#8230; </p>
<p>This is a lot to digest, so I&#8217;d have to reread and ruminate for awhile before I could offer an opinion&#8211; and then I don&#8217;t know how valid my opinion would be since I&#8217;m only married to a military member, not a member of the military.  However, after 18 years and six (seven?) deployments and another one on the horizon in three weeks, I&#8217;ve seen it from the inside and would venture to say there are as many reasons why people join the military as there are reasons people become sex workers.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think most of the country is particularly sympathetic to the military except in times of war or whatever they&#8217;re calling it now&#8211; if then.  They pay a lot of lip service to &#8220;sacrifice&#8221; and &#8220;honor&#8221; and throw the word &#8220;hero&#8221; around a lot and give out medals to placate the civilians that we&#8217;re the good guys and winning the war against the bad guys, but in the end I think the mentality is &#8220;Better him/her than my son/daughter, husband/wife.&#8221;  The other mentality seems to be that going into the military is a free-thinking choice and is well-compensated (which it can be, if you make it a career), so no sympathy is necessary.   I have my doubts when you say: &#8220;&#8230;I also wonder if looking at this sort of comparison, or some other like it, wouldn’t help to improve some folks’ levels of compassion or understanding for sex workers or about sex work.&#8221; </p>
<p>Also, I&#8217;m not sure what you mean by you&#8217;re &#8220;strongly anti-military.&#8221;  Can you clarify?</p>
<p>Intriguing way to frame the topic and I&#8217;ll be interested to hear others&#8217; opinions.
</p>
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