Comments on: http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/ Mon, 21 May 2012 16:32:00 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.1 by: Stone Seal http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/#comment-108337 Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:32:29 +0000 http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/#comment-108337 I am glad I came across your blog. I am glad I came across your blog.

]]> by: Trixie http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/#comment-57331 Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:16:51 +0000 http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/#comment-57331 Awesome, articulate, important post. Right fucking on. Awesome, articulate, important post. Right fucking on.

]]> by: Elinor http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/#comment-52640 Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:36:08 +0000 http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/#comment-52640 Jeyoani's thoughts are really interesting to me, as the product of an upper-middle-class upbringing that included three years in an extremely "academically rigorous" (read: demanding and punitive) private school. I'm not sure it's that simple; I think there's enormous pressure on middle-class parents (or parents in some segments of the middle class, I shouldn't generalize too much) to produce perfect overachieving children, and an implied judgment, from other parents, of those whose children aren't stars, or at least "well rounded" (i.e. making straight As with some athletic and musical hobbies on the side). There may be an implied expectation that they will explain themselves, rebut the presumption that the whole *family* is bad. Of course, this often means saying deprecating and diminishing things about their own children within earshot of those children. It still amazes me what demands people in that milieu put on adolescents -- especially really young adolescents, 11-15ish. Between the physical changes and the social dynamics children experience at that age (whose nastiness has become a cliche), I think they have enough to deal with; I don't understand why any adult would think it was a good time to bring in the rejection, the humiliation and the "tough love." I have a feeling that if I raise children in that kind of milieu, their teachers are going to think I'm a real pain in the ass. Jeyoani’s thoughts are really interesting to me, as the product of an upper-middle-class upbringing that included three years in an extremely “academically rigorous” (read: demanding and punitive) private school. I’m not sure it’s that simple; I think there’s enormous pressure on middle-class parents (or parents in some segments of the middle class, I shouldn’t generalize too much) to produce perfect overachieving children, and an implied judgment, from other parents, of those whose children aren’t stars, or at least “well rounded” (i.e. making straight As with some athletic and musical hobbies on the side). There may be an implied expectation that they will explain themselves, rebut the presumption that the whole *family* is bad. Of course, this often means saying deprecating and diminishing things about their own children within earshot of those children.

It still amazes me what demands people in that milieu put on adolescents — especially really young adolescents, 11-15ish. Between the physical changes and the social dynamics children experience at that age (whose nastiness has become a cliche), I think they have enough to deal with; I don’t understand why any adult would think it was a good time to bring in the rejection, the humiliation and the “tough love.”

I have a feeling that if I raise children in that kind of milieu, their teachers are going to think I’m a real pain in the ass.

]]> by: Jeyoani http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/#comment-52470 Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:38:59 +0000 http://www.femmerotic.com/journal/2008/08/14/the-road-back-from-whatever/#comment-52470 What a freaking great blog!!! Shoot. Your thoughts about the value of the oppostional child (which has been turned into a psychological disorder now) is so dead-on. I love all the thoughts and value you place on all the things people despise in children and youth!! God we are a nation of control freaks. I feel so guilty about how I only became part of this whole anti-child, anti-intelligence, anti-human machine by woking at a YMCA after school program which had no concept of anything you're talking about. You'd thing we'd be more progressive and more cognizant of the way kids learn and grow best by now, but no. I was working w/middle class kids at an after school program and I get alot of what you are saying here re class- It's like, in youth, (only in youth) poor kids have the luxury or excuse of the assumed-to-be- bad-parents, which can at times work in their favor in certain ways. But as for their middle class counterparts?--they will be assumed to be just plain bad kids b/c obviously it's not the parents b/c of this inbred belief in our society that parents w/money are innately good and parents w/out money are innately immoral and not-good. So for the poor kids who are "bad", maybe they can still be intervened upon and turned into good citizens. But the rotten middle class kids? What bad eggs. There were two beautiful, blonde, socially-acceptable and "perfect " looking kids in particular I think about who I cared for at the program, a brother and sister with the most unforgiving mother. They were both very creative and talented (like most kids) and kind (always giving me things). They were truly great kids. But their mom only ever railed at them! She was almost literally every time upon picking them up immediately scolding them, railing at them, criticizing them. Her kids were freaking *great* but she never seemed to notice. The one time I saw her actually smile and seem pleased with her kids was when once this *other mom* mentioned how great her daughter was. In this moment I saw her truly smile for once. Like you mention above, though you could be getting good grades and have wonderful traits and habits, it was only the negative (so-called) traits that got notice. And the good ones I bet, were accredited toward your parents right?! There is too much anti-child attitude and ownership and proprietary-notions toward children in general... ugh this really gets me thinking in so many directions about how anti-child our society is and I agree with this point: "It is a world that is quick to punish and slow to help, a world paradoxically both deeply moralistic and profoundly neglectful." - God aint it the truth? My brother always talks about this and how it all intersects with identification with and valuing of conqueroring and exploitative nations and imperialism and classism and our money-based society --I think all that you're talking about here is really all an intersection of all this. Anyways. Good one Heather. :) Has me thinking. It's very very sad. I really did learn alot about middle class lifestyle and its generally negative effect on kids working in this after-school program--how out on a limb these kids are --out on a limb with their many expensive toys and trips to Disneyland and NewYork and Hawaii--who cares when so many of them seemed so deeply lonely and sad? This afterschool program job was the absolute most depressing job I ever had. There was non-stop yelling at kids and pontification on their badness. It was so much tearing down of individuality and pirit. I find myself wondering how the kids I cared for will fair as they become teens, and worrying. What a freaking great blog!!!
Shoot.
Your thoughts about the value of the oppostional child (which has been turned into a psychological disorder now) is so dead-on. I love all the thoughts and value you place on all the things people despise in children and youth!! God we are a nation of control freaks. I feel so guilty about how I only became part of this whole anti-child, anti-intelligence, anti-human machine by woking at a YMCA after school program which had no concept of anything you’re talking about. You’d thing we’d be more progressive and more cognizant of the way kids learn and grow best by now, but no.

I was working w/middle class kids at an after school program and I get alot of what you are saying here re class-
It’s like, in youth, (only in youth) poor kids have the luxury or excuse of the assumed-to-be- bad-parents, which can at times work in their favor in certain ways. But as for their middle class counterparts?–they will be assumed to be just plain bad kids b/c obviously it’s not the parents b/c of this inbred belief in our society that parents w/money are innately good and parents w/out money are innately immoral and not-good. So for the poor kids who are “bad”, maybe they can still be intervened upon and turned into good citizens. But the rotten middle class kids? What bad eggs.

There were two beautiful, blonde, socially-acceptable and “perfect ” looking kids in particular I think about who I cared for at the program, a brother and sister with the most unforgiving mother.
They were both very creative and talented (like most kids) and kind (always giving me things). They were truly great kids. But their mom only ever railed at them! She was almost literally every time upon picking them up immediately scolding them, railing at them, criticizing them. Her kids were freaking *great* but she never seemed to notice. The one time I saw her actually smile and seem pleased with her kids was when once this *other mom* mentioned how great her daughter was. In this moment I saw her truly smile for once.

Like you mention above, though you could be getting good grades and have wonderful traits and habits, it was only the negative (so-called) traits that got notice. And the good ones I bet, were accredited toward your parents right?!

There is too much anti-child attitude and ownership and proprietary-notions toward children in general… ugh this really gets me thinking in so many directions about how anti-child our society is and I agree with this point:
“It is a world that is quick to punish and slow to help, a world paradoxically both deeply moralistic and profoundly neglectful.”
- God aint it the truth?

My brother always talks about this and how it all intersects with identification with and valuing of conqueroring and exploitative nations and imperialism and classism and our money-based society –I think all that you’re talking about here is really all an intersection of all this.
Anyways. Good one Heather. :)
Has me thinking. It’s very very sad. I really did learn alot about middle class lifestyle and its generally negative effect on kids working in this after-school program–how out on a limb these kids are –out on a limb with their many expensive toys and trips to Disneyland and NewYork and Hawaii–who cares when so many of them seemed so deeply lonely and sad?

This afterschool program job was the absolute most depressing job I ever had. There was non-stop yelling at kids and pontification on their badness. It was so much tearing down of individuality and pirit. I find myself wondering how the kids I cared for will fair as they become teens, and worrying.

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